Fisherless RN

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I have done a lot of drawings lately for the Royal Navy with the premise that Lord Fisher did not make it back to the Admiralty in 1914 and so the building program of the Royal Navy is completely different for WW1. That would also make the post-WW1 Washington Naval Treaty a different set of ships to be retained through to WW2. This AU will allow me to put all these drawings into one thread and let me fill in the gaps with the ships and ship types that could make up this different future.

As noted in another thread: Admiral Fisher sidetracked the two R class into Repulse and Renown, and ordered the three Courageous class. That was a total of approximately 120,000 tons. For Great Britain it is not the shipbuilding capacity that gets strained it is the ability to provide the steel required by the shipbuilding industry that is the limiting factor on how much can be built. For my Fisherless world the three Barfleur Class are going to take 105,000 tons of that amount. Leaves 15,000 to put toward whatever was next. The four Admiral class were next in the list of capital ship building projects. Initially at 36,000 tons each that would have been 144,000 tons of steel. Add the 15,000 to that figure and we end up with about 160,000, which is just nice to build my four ship Majestic Class. So what happens to the CV conversions of the ugly sisters, I hear you ask? They get replaced with two Majestic class conversions. The fourth ship is cancelled.

With the completion of Majestic in 1920, a decision was to be made as to what would happen with the three uncompleted ships. Two were at 75% and 80% complete but their construction had been halted in 1918. With the convening of the Washington conference their future became even more problematic. The fourth unit was only 40% complete and the decision was taken to scrap it as the funds to complete it would be hard to come by. As we know now the Washington Naval Treaty had a far reaching affect on warship production for years to come.

But what does that do to my Fisherless Royal Navy. In real life the Royal Navy ends up with 5 Royal Sovereign, 5 Queen Elizabeth, 2 Renown, and Hood. The two Nelson class yet to be built. In my FRN the 2 Renowns and Hood disappear and Tiger is the last of the battlecruisers. With the three Barfleur class, Majestic and three possible sisters something has to give. Is the RN likely to try to get an extra ship through? Would the WNT allow the RN 5xR, 5xQE, 3 Barfleur, Majestic, then the 2 Nelsons to be built? Keep the Tiger as the training ship. Would the RN be willing to sacrifice an 'R' if it was neccessary.

The WNT was not good news for the Majestic's sisters, the WNT would not allow them to be completed as battleships. The new-fangled type of ships to carry wheeled aircraft were their saviour. While they could not be completed as battleships they could be converted to aircraft carriers. The RN had been trialling these ships with the Cavendish/Vindictive , Eagle, Argus and then the purpose built Hermes. The two Majestic class ships Goliath and Bulwark would be the RN's largest and most ambitious aircraft carrier projects.

There was a second timeline presented which I also did drawings for. Instead of building the two Nelson class, two of the Majestic type would be completed to a modified design to save weight. That would leave only one Majestic to convert to a carrier with an extra carrier to be built with completion 1930+.

There will also be changes to the cruisers and lesser vessels (as I think of them) though I will try to keep the ships within RN doctrine and I will listen to the comments as these are made. You will note the absence of the 5.25" from my gun lists. The 4.7" is the standard destroyer weapon through to the F/G class destroyers, when the 4.5" and 4" in dual purpose mountings and turrets take over. The 5.5" gun only lasts about 15 years in service , no more new mountings are produced and the twins on the G class cruisers and Mars/Jupiter class Leaders start being replaced by the 4.5" twin dual purpose turret between 1938-39, but once war breaks out, those that have not been refitted, retain their original armament through to the end of WW2 (one G and one Jupiter may get a Lend/Lease rebuilding in the US in 1941).

With the older capital ships I will try to have both an original drawing (as completed) and a drawing as they appeared in WW2.

As with other threads (and to give a comparison), I though it a good idea to weigh out the battleships.
5 x Queen Elizabeth = 5 x 28,000 = 140,000 tons
5 x Royal Sovereign = 5 x 28,000 = 140,000 tons
3 x Barfleur = 3 x 32,000 = 96,000 tons
1 x Majestic = 1 x 40,000 = 40,000 tons
Total = 465,000 tons
+ 2 Nelsons/Majestics = 2 x 35,000/40,000 = 70-80,000 tons
Grand Total = 500,000 tons. near enough.


Battleships / Battlecruisers.
HMS Neptune (TS/CVE/ADV) 5 1909 UK-3, AU-2
HMSAS Rhodesia (ex Lion-BC) 2 1912 SA-2
HMAS Marlborough (ex-Iron Duke-BB) 6 1913/14 AU-4, SA-2
HMAS Kimberley (ex Tiger) 2 1914 AU-2
HMSAS Natal (ex Erin) 1 1914 SA-1
HMAS New South Wales (ex Canada) 1 1915 AU-1
HMS Courageous (BC-13.5" & 15") 2 1915 UK-2
HMS Queen Elizabeth (BB) 8 1915 UK-5, AU-3
HMS Revenge (CVE?) 5 1916-17 UK-5
HMS Barfleur (BB) 3 1917-18 UK-3
HMAS Australis (BC) 1 1919 AU-1
HMS Majestic (BB) 4 1920 UK-4
HMSAS Transvaal (BB) 1 1923 SA-1
HMSAS Sud Afrika (BC) 1 1936 SA-1
HMS King George V (BB) 12 1939-43 UK-8-10, AU-2-4
HMS Vanguard (BB) 3 1940 UK-1-3
HMS Vengeance (BB) 3 1941-42 AU-1, UK-2
HMAS Oceania (BB) 1 1945 AU-1
Aircraft Carriers
HMS Neptune CVE 1 1911 UK-1
HMS Revenge (CVE?) 5 1916-17 UK-5
HMS Argus




HMS Hermes




HMAS Carpentaria




HMS Eagle




HMAS Van Diemen




HMS Goliath/Albion 1-2 1928 UK-1/2
HMSAS Lesotho




HMS Apollo 1 1932 UK-1
HMAS Albatross (CVE)



AU-10, UK-24

HMS Ark Royal



UK3 SA-1

HMS Andania 6 1921-40 UK-6
HMS Albatross (CVL)




HMS Illustrious




HMAS Endeavour




HMS Unicorn / HMAS Tasman 16 1942 UK-AU
HMS Indefatigable/Malta




Cruisers (Heavy, Light, Anti-Aircraft, Armoured)
Birmingham 6 1914 AU-4/UK-2
Arethusa 11 1914 AU-4/SA-3/UK-4
Caroline 14 1915 SA-2/UK-12
Caledon 17 1917 AU-4, SA-1, UK-12
Danae 8 1918 UK-8
Emerald 4 1924 AU-2/UK-2
Dunedin 2 1923 AU-2
Frobisher 4 1923+ UK-4
HMS Cornwall (CA) 20 1928+ AU-4, SA-2, UK-14
HMS Leopard (CA) 2 1934 UK-2
Leander 14 1935 AU-4/UK-8/SA-4
Newcastle 34 1937+ AU-4/CA-2/UK-28
Angola 6 1938+ SA-6
Melbourne 4 1940 AU-4
Dido 19 1940+ UK-19
Mount Perry 30 1939 AU-24/SA-6
HMS Lancaster (CA) 4 1940-41 UK-4
Princess Royal 6 1941 AU-2/UK-4
Area Defence Vessels

Lord Nelson

2 1908 AU-1/UK-1


1 1908 SA-1


2 1909 AU-2

Duke of Edinburgh

4 1908 UK-4


2 1912 AU-2

St Vincent

2 1910 UK-2


2 1913 AU-2
Pegasus      1




1 1935 SA-1



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