Germanic States

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These are my never were vessels of German origin. I am yet to finalise in my mind the borders of the Germanic States. Some of the ships will be copies of what I have done for Argentina and other Minor Powers, the GS style of the same class will have all of the latest equipment some of which may have been under the 'secret' label and not available on the export models.

I have done some major changes to the layouts and classes of the Dreadnought fleet through to the end of WW1. I have replaced all of the wing turret layouts with superimposed turrets. This has the advantages of reducing the number of turrets per ship, and also the number of turrets required to produce the same broadside. Only requiring four turrets instead of six (on he Nassau and Ostfriesland classes) is a major saving in cost. The other way to look at it is if you used the saved turrets for new ships, the Germans would/could/maybe have had 30% more ships. I have only added four battleships, two Armoured Cruisers, and two Battlecruisers to the list of actual ships for the German Navy. The major change to the battleships is to have three of four of the Bayern class completed before wars end, with the fourth ship completed soon after (1922). At the end of the war, with the Germanic States Fleet interned at Scapa Flow, if the terms of the Versailles Treaty are altered to enable the Germanic States to retain more of its fleet as a buffer against the Soviet Fleet in the Baltic, and then to allow the Germanic States Navy to build replacement capital ships at 60% (21,000 tons) of the Washington Treaty's 35,000 ton limit, would the GS Fleet still have scuttled itself? If the GS Fleet is not scuttled, that allows me to sell off the surrendered ships to places like Argentina, Spain, and Galicia, which sets those nations up to be part of the Axis in the next war. My thoughts on the Disposition of the Germanic States Fleet 1919-20.

One of the worst problems for the GS Navy at the opening of WW2 is the hand loaded 37mm AA guns. Surely something similar to the British 2 pounder could have been put into production in the later 1930's. The Bofors 40mm had been around since the mid 30's and only the Dutch seem to have taken up the Bofors by wars start. The GS Navy could easily have incorporated the 40mm Bofors into its inventory in, say, 1938 and the 37mm would have just disappeared, or a 37mm Bofors may have been introduced.

Next is carrier borne aviation. The building of aircraft carriers for the Germanic States can not really start prior to 1934, then even with two or three building shifts the first carriers would not be completed till 1938 ( a 31/2 to 4 year building period). The second part of that is how do you know if your ideas being built into your carriers are any good? You will not actually get to trial your ships till they are completed, so it could easily be six months after that before you lay down your next ships. Do you do a quick and nasty conversion of an old BB/BC/Merchant type ship to a carrier and learn from that while your first ships are under construction. Incorporate your learning into the new ships. Do your spies and Naval Attaches (same thing) glean details of the US, Japanese, British, CV construction, and use that information to help produce the best ship possible. Otherwise your Navy will only have the two original 1938 built carriers to start the war with. No more could be expected till 1942/43. The extra ships that are produced for the Royal Commonwealth Navy include bigger and better carriers. Unless I give the Germanic States at least a few carrier type ships, their Navy will just get hammered.


Germanic States (KM)

Class Name



First Date

Page Address (Click on thumbnail for page view)

Aircraft Carriers

KM Anhalt-Dessau 1 CVE 1935
KM Graf Zeppelin 2 CV 1938+
KM Baron Von Richtoften (CV) 4 CV 1940+
KM Vaterland (CV) 2 CV 1943+
KM Weser (CVL) 2-6 CVE/CVL 1943+

Battleships / Battlecruisers

KM Hindenburg 6 BB 1943-44
KM Scharnhorst 9x16.5 4 BB 1939-40
KM Scharnhorst / Bismarck 2/4 BB 1938-40
KM Scharnhorst 2 BB 1938
KM Ostereich 2 BC 1938
KM Graf Von Roon 2 BC 1936
KM Admiral Hipper 3 BC 1928
KM Mackensen 1 BC 1918-1923
KM Baden 4 BB 1916-1923
KM Lutzow 2 BC 1916
KM Konig 4 BB 1914
KM Derfflinger 3 BC 1914-15
KM Kaiser 6 BB 1912-13
SMS Helgoland 6 BB 1911
SMS Von Der Tann 4 BC 1910+
SMS Nassau 6 BB 1909-10

Heavy / Light / Anti-aircraft Cruisers

KM Munich 4 CLA 1943-44
KM Breslau 4 CLA 1943-44
KM Rostock 2 CA 1941+
KM Prinz Eugen 4 CB 1939+
KM Von Der Tann


CA 1937
KM Leipzig 4 CL 1935
KM Koln 4 CL 1931
KM Emden 2 CL 1927
KM Dresden 2 CLA 1922
KM Von Brandenburg 1 CA 1920
KM Admiral Schroder 2 CA 1919
KM Frankfurt 2 CLA 1915
Blucher (ACR) 3 CB 1909


KM Z60 10 DDL 1944
KM Z25 16 DDL 1940+
KM T-75 12 DD 1942
KM Z1 18 DDL 1937
KM T-50 20 DD 1936+
KM T-01 & T-25 (TB) 40 DDE 1928
KM Drache 1 DDL 1918
KM Lignite 12 DDE 1916
KM Baldr 2 DD 1916


KM Riddermark (CC) 6 CC 1936+
Schnellboot (SB) 350+ FAC 1933-45
KM Torpedo Gunboats 36+ TGB 1940+
A-01 34 TB 1935+
KM Brummer 2 ML 1935
KM Lowe 2 ML 1939
KM Minesweepers Lots MS 1917-45
KM Kondor 4 ESC 1943
KM Luchs 12 ESC 1935



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